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Post by Billy Garcia on May 22, 2011 23:02:43 GMT -5
haha nicely said penner
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Post by Ozzy Lusth on May 22, 2011 23:30:32 GMT -5
What Penner said. I think that covered every bit of my thoughts.
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Post by Jonathan Penner on May 23, 2011 1:24:36 GMT -5
And look, honestly we're here to play the game, so either play the game or gtfo! What I did to Billy, and what I did to Ozzy-both game moves. In hindsight do I regret the decisions? Of course. I much rather would have voted out Steph that first round of merge, and Ozzy, well that move and what it did is pretty self explanatory. I did it for the sake of my game, but when Ozzy was leaving I knew exactly what would happen to me, but trying to make a move would have only made my time come sooner. Ozzy was a friend, and I don't know what will happen in the future, but I hope it won't be taken too seriously. I hope over time that will heal especially that Jenny got me back for it! I don't think people should be faulted for playing the game...give the dude some credit, he kicked ass this season and anyone who says Nate doesn't deserve to be in finals is just a bitter bitch-flat out.
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Post by Parvati Shallow on May 23, 2011 1:49:28 GMT -5
With regards to Penner's post, for starters, I find it a little bit offensive that you're just claiming that none of us knew what Nate was doing the whole time. I had a pretty good idea of what he was up to, and I spent a lot of time trying to kneecap him from becoming too powerful, whether that was voting you off despite his (very strong) objections or trying to get rid of Jenny and Sekou afterwards, or staying up late to try and finally beat him in a challenge.
Secondly, I'm surprised that you'd admonish us for simply dismissing Nate, and then do the same thing to Cristina and Steph. Just because you haven't seen their gameplay doesn't mean it wasn't taking place.
Thirdly, challenge-whoring is for me, neither here nor there. I've seen challenge whores win because they successfully proved there was no other way for them to win. I've seen them lose for the same reason. I think in this case it has no bearing on whether Nate is worthy.
With Nate, I think he played a solid social game, miles ahead of the ladies. But I also think he played a far dirtier game, at least where I was involved. He spent a heck of a lot of time telling me how hurt he was when other people would betray him or abuse his trust, and then turned around and did the exact same thing to me at the final eight and seven, even though I was probably more honest with him than anybody else in the cast, and was legitimately planning on sticking with him. I don't like unnecessary deceit, and I like hypocrisy even less.
Jenny, I'm not a fan of. That's probably due more to Flica and Ozzy spoiling my identity to her than anything, but the fact that it happened essentially ruined every possible chance of me being able to work with her. Wouldn't surprise me if people told Sekou, either.
So, yes. I'll probably be voting for either Steph or CC, and my allegiance to them has nothing to do with it. Like Penner said, you can't know how well they played the game until you see their final tribal council performance. CC knows full well that people underestimate her, and she's masterful at leveraging that and using it to her own advantage. I was final two with her in a game a little while back, and because of her ability to infiltrate people by pretending to be harmless, she gave me more of a run for my money than I've had in a very, very long time.
With Steph, sure, she was pretty ineffectual at challenges, and she played a pretty lousy social game. But did Steph actually need to do anything differently? She got all of the information she needed from me and Cristina, and there was really no benefit to her running around stirring things up more than they already were. So in terms of sheer efficiency, I'd say that Steph did exactly what she needed to do to get to the end, nothing more, nothing less.
That's my two cents, anyway.
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Post by Jonathan Penner on May 23, 2011 3:01:57 GMT -5
I see where you're coming from. But if Steph were to go up against you and CC in final 3, she wouldn't get a single vote, period. Because of the fact that she got all the info from you 2, let you 2 do the talking, and did virtually nothing all game. But since she'll be sitting up against Nate and CC (if she happens to survive this vote which I doubt she will if it's a tb challenge because she "has a life" therefore won't have the time) she will be up against 2 giants in my opinion.
But I do agree about CC. Nate has told me what she's done for the most part so I do know she didn't just completely sit back, but that's just what I've heard. I've never witnessed it and she surely didn't do it to me. So in regards to that all I have to say is repeating--the game is either won or lost in the ftc. CC very well could win over my vote, but she'd have to do a lot at this point.
And if that comment about not knowing what Nate was up to doesn't apply to you, then I didn't direct it at you which is why I said "most of you don't seem to know".
Nate played a good social game, and I don't think it should be taken lightly whether he won a bunch of challenges or not. If you're so upset with it, then you simply should have put the effort forth to beat him. But it seems most of this cast didn't bother and just let Nate win knowing full well he would, then just decided to use it against him. Take it from him if it makes you so upset, don't use it against him especially when he's done far more than just win immunities. Like I said--the guy deserves far more credit than he's being given.
And I don't know all that was said to you Parv, but I know the majority of it. I would say for his position lying was key (depends on what he said) because obviously he needed people to have his back for that time he wasn't immune (if that ever came about). When he was vulnerable, luckily he had an immunity in his pocket, but I'd assume some or most of you were on good terms with Nate, agreed to some sort of deal of watching each other's backs, only since Nate was immune he beat you to the punch.
But we'll see how it plays out. It will definitely come down to answers for me and it seems that's what it will come down to for most of us.
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Post by Yul Kwon on May 23, 2011 7:40:13 GMT -5
Man Penner...I've never seen someone stuck up one person's ass as much as you are with Nate. I actually feel sorry for Nate to have someone like you stuck up there.
You say your vote isn't made up until the final tribal council, but then you go on and talk and praise Nate like none other, while brushing the others off to the side. You talk about everything Nate has done in this game, including after you were voted out, which means you were still talking to him after you got voted out.
I think that speaks volumes, and I don't think you'd find someone in here with us, who thought your vote would go to anyone other than Nate, irregardless of whom was there and what happened at the final tribal council.
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Post by Jonathan Penner on May 23, 2011 12:55:38 GMT -5
I talked about Jenny as well because I think she is also deserving and not getting much credit. I'm not 100% voting for Nate, but I am a bit biased. I'm just trying to get people to see the other side, from someone who is actually a friend of Nate and not an enemy. And I knew Nate before this game (yes, pre-aligned) so that's why I'm fighting for him. I'm sure Ozzy is/would do the same for Jenny and I'd be mad at him if he didn't
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Post by Ozzy Lusth on May 23, 2011 14:05:54 GMT -5
I agree Penner. Either play or GTFO. There's no reason to sign up if you're gonna have RL getting that much in the way as Steph seems to have. Penner I knew when I got voted out that you had something to do with it. But I also knew that you would follow me into the Jury House and I was certainly right. But it's fine Penner. It's just a game. I got farther than I normally do. haha But to prove a point, my RL has taken an odd turn. And I'm removing myself from playing in games for a while. I'm in one last one. I have this AS that I will play in since I committed to it. Penner if you wanna get in touch with me, you can get my AIM that I'm on always from Flicka/Gabe Yes I agree, Nate knew he was a dead man had he not won immunity. That's why he won like he did. He truly does deserve to be in the finals. And before anyone says me shoved up Nate's ass, he will tell you like I will, I am NOT a fan of Nate's what-so-ever. But I give credit where credit is due. As far as him admonishing CC or Steph's game play, Steph had no game play. You admitted that Parv by saying With Steph, sure, she was pretty ineffectual at challenges, and she played a pretty lousy social game. But did Steph actually need to do anything differently? She got all of the information she needed from me and Cristina, and there was really no benefit to her running around stirring things up more than they already were. So in terms of sheer efficiency, I'd say that Steph did exactly what she needed to do to get to the end, nothing more, nothing less. She got all her info from you and CC, what kind of game play is that? That to me is a coattail rider who did nothing but show up for the vote. And that's a waste of time tbh. As far as you Parv, not being a fan of Jenny's, Jenny is unlike other players and makes no nothing about who people are. Not to mention that this is only Jenny's fourth proboards game. So there's very few she really knows who they are. She knows Flicka and myself from another site and she knows Lex *from the AS game* from that same site. She knows CC from a previous game they played together. And she's found out that just because you're allies in one game, that doesnt' carry to the next. So me telling her who you were made no difference to her. She wasn't gonna work with you due to this game and when you went with Cece in voting me out. Not due to any preconceived notions about you. Yes I agree CC played a decent game. Was loyal to her allies, which I can't fault her for. Jenny has played a helluva game though. She won a few challenges, helped her tribe out when we were on tribes. She has played a pivotal part in each of the votes. But I'll let her explain all of that if she gets to FTC. Which unless Steph actually does the TB, she should be in FTC.
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Post by Adam Gentry on May 23, 2011 18:55:48 GMT -5
Man you'd think with all this arguing we were still in the game
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Post by Billy Garcia on May 23, 2011 21:33:04 GMT -5
haha thats wat i was thinking
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Post by Ozzy Lusth on May 23, 2011 22:53:22 GMT -5
I'm not arguing. I'm just stating my opinions.
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Post by Parvati Shallow on May 24, 2011 0:32:51 GMT -5
As far as you Parv, not being a fan of Jenny's, Jenny is unlike other players and makes no nothing about who people are. I disagree, but that's just me. Also, I'm proud to say that I also don't judge people based on previous games. If someone screws me in one game and helps me in another, that's good enough for me. I disagree. While I don't think Jenny necessarily actively went against me due to my identity, I think knowing who I am definitely meant that she now knew a hell of a lot more about my capabilities, and made it nearly impossible for her not to see me as a threat, where she otherwise might have been lulled into a false sense of security. Plus, voting you off the first time wasn't my fault, and I did actually legitimately try to save you, so I'm not sure why that would ever be a mark against my trustworthiness. Also, Penner, I'm pretty insulted that you think we just lay down and let Nate win. For one thing, I would definitely have won the first IC if the host hadn't extended the deadline. My losses had absolutely nothing to do with lack of effort on my part, ever. I also disagree that his lying was justified, or at least, I disagree that the kind of lying he did, by relating it to himself as a person, was justified. And, to be totally honest, the fact that you and he had a pre-game alliance makes me respect both of you quite a lot less. Sure, Nate played a good game. But I think it's possible to play it differently, and it's definitely possible to be an Immunity whore and survive vulnerable periods without being unnecessarily deceitful (I've done it, several times), and I think Nate could definitely have chosen to do things differently, especially where I was concerned. And, honestly, nobody's saying Nate is undeserving, so it's a bit irritating to be constantly lectured for something we aren't doing...
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Post by Jonathan Penner on May 24, 2011 3:31:47 GMT -5
People have been saying how he isn't deserving because he won his way to the end...that's exactly what people said!
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Post by Yul Kwon on May 24, 2011 4:10:36 GMT -5
Please show us where people said this then....
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Post by Jonathan Penner on May 24, 2011 14:11:02 GMT -5
I'd vote for Steph. If she makes it to the Finals, the fact she played an "I don't give a fuck", tell it like it is game, and the fact she didn't even attempt most challenges, and still made it that far is wonderful. A lot better than people who have to play secret powers to stay in the game/get an advantage, or just win immunity every time. That's not good game play. There ya go Yul, there's one YOU said! You'd vote for Steph because she did nothing, and people who use prizes (that someone won immunity and sent them to get) and they earned, or winning a bunch of immunities is less deserving. An indirect statement pointed at Jenny and Nate.
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